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Rhetoretician -- Fiction etc.

Book Seven Predictions

Book Seven Predictions

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antosha_c  participated in a "Book Seven Predictions" Meme today, and I couldn't resist trying my hand.  bandcandy  has done something similar in the past, but I was able to maintain self-control in her case.  Now I've lost it, and I have to give in.  I'm listing AC's predictions below in italics and replying to them; then I'll add my own.


·         Like Spanish strongman Francisco Franco, Sirius will still be dead.
 
Yeah. Only it’s “Generalissimo”

·         So will Dumbledore
 
Uh-huh.  Work a bit harder.

·         They will both manage to appear, even so :shifty eyes:
 
I think that Dumbledore's portrait will say something, but that's about all.  I don't think we'll hear from Sirius, mirror or no mirror.

·         Voldy will die
 
And the sun will rise in the morning.

·         Snape will die, paying his debt to James/Harry
 
Snape will die, but only because he has been written into a narrative corner where martyrdom is the only way of resolving the problem.

·         Pettigrew will die.... ditto, ditto, ditto
 
Yes, he does owe a life debt.

·         Hagrid will die, which will make me sad, but since his only contribution to the plot since book 3 is Grawp... :salutes:
 
Hagrid will die for symbolic reasons, ably set out by bandcandy  and her cohorts.  (1) Harry's protectors are dying in the reverse order in which he met them; (2) alchemically (?!) the elixir of life is created by burning first that which is black, then that which is white, then that which is red.

·         Harry will die... or appear to. And then will 'come back to life'... or appear to. ;-)
 
Nah. He will not die permanently; I doubt even that he will appear to die, as it's too flashy and unnecessary.  He might die symbolically (e.g., burial under the earth) or accept death as a consequence of his victory, but I don't think he'll actually die, even temporarily. We won’t leave Harry’s POV.

·         Ron and/or Hermione may die, but not if Harry does.
 
No.  The trio is too perfectly balanced; there'd be no way to cure the imbalance afterward.

·         At least one Weasley will die to pay off Molly's worst fear—possibly Charlie or Percy, more likely Fred and/or George.
 
I'd bet on Percy, as he's the central counter-figure for the "good vs. easy" paradigm.

·         Draco will appear in exactly four chapters, do nothing of consequence, will attempt to win favor with Moldyshorts by betraying/killing Harry, will fail and will either die or slink off into the darkness in humiliation... and show up at the end sneering and muttering you'll get yours, Potter, just as he has for the previous six books.
 
Who cares? Actually I disagree pretty strongly, see below.

·         Ron and Hermione will hook up. Finally. ("I love you." "I know.")
 
They already have; JKR doesn't get more explicit than she already has.  Ron already told her he loves her. They will eventually marry, though, in the Epilogue.

·         Neville will get laid. Come on, the boy has earned it! (It won't be Luna, we've been told; nor will it be Ginny or Hermione, because as much as these books have gotten older.... Look at the uproar Ginny's causal dating of two boys raised. Casual sex? So... Susan Bones? Hannah Abbott? Pansy? XD)
 
No.  Nobody will get laid, unless you count a notation that he eventually got married.  Jo is still Jo.

·         Draco won't get any. Because I said so. (And also because the author actually a) doesn't care about him, b) doesn't like him and c) doesn't think of him as at all appealing or attractive. So there.)
 
See above.

·         There will be at least one scene in which the curtain comes up on Ginny and Harry alone together in a private place (her room, the broom shed, the RoR, the Chamber of Secrets), both acting a bit shy and dreamy... And we'll suddenly find ourselves asking... Wait. Did they just...?
 
No.  Story will be entirely from Harry's POV, and we won't be left wondering anything of the kind, and Jo thinks of herself firmly as a children's book author. But we will hear that they eventually marry.

·         Ginny won't go on the Horcrux Hunt™. Even though I've written it that way in some of my fics. :-p
 
Right. And she shouldn’t.

·         The Trio won't go back to school, but Hogwarts will reopen.
 
I think that's probably right, on both counts.

·         We'll get at least a few scenes from the Other Trio's PoV, following Ginny, Luna and Neville around to DA meetings or such.
 
Not too sure about that, as JKR has been pretty assiduous about keeping things in Harry's POV unless absolutely necessary for plot reasons, and then for a chapter or two at most.  It is possible, but if I had to bet on even odds, I'd vote against.  But we will find out about them (at least Ginny) somehow.

·         Ginny will be attacked at Hogwarts/the Burrow anyway, and Harry will feel like a right idiot.
 
I would have said so a few months ago, but now I think it's not necessary for what JKR wants to do with the story.  It will be necessary for Ginny & Harry's love to contribute to the end of Voldemort, but I don't think H & G's decision was the wrong one and so I don't think Harry needs to feel like an idiot.  The only reason to have Ginny attacked would be to have Harry fly to her rescue (see previous sentence) -- but it's not the only way of resolving the problem.

·         Ginny will save Harry's life at least once.
 
Probably.  75% probability.

·         Luna will kick a#$#.
 
Maybe.  Or else she'll snuff it.

·         We'll watch the scene where Harry dies/appears to die/comes back/appears to come back from Ginny's PoV.
 
No.

·         Harry will 'vanquish' LV, but it won't be because Harry stands there like Clint Eastwood with a wand, muttering, "Eat green light, scum!" Either LV will try to do something to Harry that will cause his own demise, or Harry will selflessly protect someone else as his mother protected him—only this time, no Horcrux. And Harry will either die or... blah, blah, blah.
 
Something like that.  All we know is that love will be the weapon, some way or other. There is simply too little data on which to make any more precise prediction.

·         If somehow that final selfless act is about saving Draco (which I don't expect), then Malfoy will owe Harry a life debt. Which will piss both of them off.
 
Not. “Life debt” concept is all played out with Pettigrew and/or Snape.

·         The final showdown will happen behind the Veil. (American cover?)
 
No.

·         RAB=Regulus. Locket=one of the items that Dung sold to Aberforth.
 
Yes he is, and yes Dung stole it, but I'm not sure about Aberforth. We don’t even know for sure that the Hogshead proprietor is Aberforth, although I agree it’s likely.

·         The Ravenclaw artifact will be Neville's wand.
 
There is some textual support for its being a wand, but I'd give this one only a 50% chance. As for its being Neville’s, I’ll give 3:1 odds against.

·         One way or another there will be a Gryffindor Horcrux—Harry, the sword, the Sorting Hat... Dunno if Nagini's really a Horcrux or not.
 
I agree, but I don't think it's the sword.  (Actually, it could be -- see my predictions below.)
 
·         Norbert will reappear, as will the Mirror of Erised. Harry will see something different in the mirror this time.
 
No to both.
 
·         At some point, the Trio will burst into a treasure trove, led by a house elf wielding Gryffindor's sword... (How does he do it! XD)
 
Observe that at no time do my fingers leave my wrist.


Now, as to my own predictions:
 
·         One of the horcruxes will turn out to have been created during Voldemort’s 1970 visit to Dumbledore’s office in which he ostensibly asked for a job. Someone else was being killed at the time of the visit or immediately beforehand. That Horcrux is in Hogwarts, possibly in the office itself
 
·         We will learn that Severus Snape believed himself to be in love with Lily Evans, but that she never loved him, except possibly as a pal. He hates Harry because he sees Lily’s eyes looking out of James’s face.
 
·         Gilderoy Lockhart and Rita Skeeter each have some remaining role to play, although it may be minor.
 
·         At the very least, Harry will visit: St. Mungo’s, two or three separate locations in the Ministry, Little Hangleton, Godric’s Hollow, the Burrow, Grimauld Place, Privet Drive, the Headmaster’s Office and at least the exterior of the Locked Room.
 
·         Although I really don’t like the idea, Harry will wind up (in the Epilogue) being an Auror. (I want him to be the long-term DADA teacher, which would be thematically just about perfect, but Jo has hinted strongly that he will not have an academic career.)
 
·         Hermione will wind up (in the Epilogue) teaching at Hogwarts. (Probably she’ll be the long-term DADA teacher.)
 
·         Draco is ultimately savable and will be ultimately saved from his own tendencies towards evil; he might die in the process, but he might not.
 
·         Neville will kill Bellatrix, or die trying.
 
·         Either Lupin or Bill Weasley will kill Fenrir Greyback; possibly the other one will die trying.
 
·         Fleur’s magical prowess, and possibly her Veela ancestry, will prove crucial in at least one battle.
 
·         Viktor Krum will do battle against the Death Eaters. I have no prediction as to whether he will survive, but if he dies it will be in a blaze of glory.
 
·         McGonagall will not be the new head of the Order of the Phoenix. I am unsure whether it will have a named head at all, and if it does I’m not clear on who it will be – Moody would be my probable guess.
 
·         The virtues of Slytherin House will be vindicated. A whole, healthy life requires all four of the primal elements. In concrete terms, we will see one or more brave, loyal, good Slytherins who are instrumental in the quest. It may be Draco, or it may not.
 
·         Hermione’s efforts to break down the barriers between the magical species – elves, goblins, unicorns – that is, her crusade against racism, will be a key factor in the victory against LV.
 
·         There will be a DADA teacher in Year Seven, who won’t be there the following year.
 
·         Frank Longbottom will be shown to have been an eyewitness to the death of the Potters.
 
·         Voldemort’s use of Harry’s blood in his regeneration will prove either to (1) make it impossible for him to kill Harry, or to (2) cause some other aspect of Harry (perhaps his strong feelings?) to have a detrimental impact on LV.
 
·         Godric’s Hollow will prove to have some connection with Gryffindor himself. It may be that the Gryffindor artifact will be found there, or will have come from there.







  • I'd bet on Percy, as he's the central counter-figure for the "good vs. easy" paradigm.

    But, but, if you're going to pick a Weasley to kill, Percy is the easy choice. To make good angst, we would need someone who hasn't been set up on such a redemptive track. Anyway, what Percy needs to sacrifice isn't his life, it's his political career.

    Luna ... or else she'll snuff it.

    No, don't say it! She's the one I'm most worried about.

    We will learn that Severus Snape believed himself to be in love with Lily Evans, but that she never loved him, except possibly as a pal. He hates Harry because he sees Lily’s eyes looking out of James’s face.

    That fits my feeling, too, but I worry that it's too shippy a prediction to have much to do with the actual story.

    Harry will wind up (in the Epilogue) being an Auror. (I want him to be the long-term DADA teacher

    I'd like him to be a Quidditch player. Auror is too much like what he's going through now.

    Viktor Krum will do battle against the Death Eaters. I have no prediction as to whether he will survive, but if he dies it will be in a blaze of glory.

    Grab the snitch but lose the game, again?
    • Well, I agree with you about Percy, but I think he's going to be the example of bad choices that wind up being irrevocable. Could be wrong, of course.

      I'm worried about Luna too. I hope she survives.

      Quiddich player would be a pleasant career for Harry, but I think Jo has invested too much in the "Auror track" option -- both McGonagall's extravagant promises in OoP and the last-minute reprive into NEWT-level potions in HBP. Personally I'd hate to be an Auror if I'd just spent the last third of my life fighting evil.

      I like your line about Krum. But I think this would be more like losing the snitch and winning the game.
  • I think (hope) that Snape will die in some way that leaves his character and participation in the war still ambiguous. I really, really don't want her to give in on this.

    I agree about Percy. I think he'll die in some heroic act that will show his true Gryffindor-ness and his true Weasley-ness and establish him firmly as a Good Guy in the end.

    Right about Hagrid too, and I for one won't be mourning.

    I don't think we'll get the Snape/Lily stuff. I think Jo's told us all she needs/wants to about that.

    I like your points about Draco's savability and the virtues of Slytherin. So far it's been very Gryffindor=good, Slytherin=bad, but I think that might need to change.

    I hope that the Epilogue won't be quite so prescriptive as many people seem to think. It's fine for her to show us 'after the end' but I really don't think it needs to go into future marriages/careers for these teenagers.

    Now about this bet, 3 to 1, huh? Does that mean that if I bet you a 1000 word story to a prompt/pairing of your choice, I get a 3000 word story back to a prompt/pairing of my choice?
    • I don't think we'll get the Snape/Lily stuff. I think Jo's told us all she needs/wants to about that.

      We know, though, that Lily's eyes in Harry's face have some tremendous importance, and that there's something significant about Lily we haven't learned yet. Nor has Snape's behavior immediately after Dumbledore's death been explained. The unrequited love explanation is the neatest, most efficient explanation and I think we've been building toward it.

      As to the Epilogue, Rowling has said (as Tolkien said) that the primary topic of the series is death. The appendices (essentially epilogues) to LotR showed us the lengthy lives and accomplishments, and eventually deaths, of the characters. In The World According to Garp (in which the protagonist says, "A novelist is a doctor who sees only terminal cases"), the epilogue takes us through the entire lives, including the deaths, of all the remaining characters, including the baby who eventually dies in middle age of cancer. Jo's already said she'll show us the future of the survivors -- I think it's going to be a long future.

      Now about this bet, 3 to 1, huh? Does that mean that if I bet you a 1000 word story to a prompt/pairing of your choice, I get a 3000 word story back to a prompt/pairing of my choice?

      Done and done. If Neville's wand turns out to be a horcrux, I'll write 3,000 words on any topic you choose. But if it doesn't, I get 1,000 girlyswot words.
  • (2) alchemically

    Oooh! Oooh! Are you aware of the big push in the H/Hr camp that alchemy figures very strongly in the series ...

    ... and is proof that Harry will end up with Hermione???

    The latest is all here, unless you're locked out of it.

    Ron already told her he loves her.

    What, that facetious bit of rubbish in the common room towards the end of HBP?

    It will be necessary for Ginny & Harry's love to contribute to the end of Voldemort

    *blaaarggh*
    *bleh*
    *vomit*

    Are you serious?

    Gawd, the 'romance' between them in HBP was such a badly written farce ... the seventh book is going to be completely unbelievable if H/G 'love' is supposed to underpin the demise of Voldemort!!
    • Are you aware of the big push in the H/Hr camp that alchemy figures very strongly in the series...

      No, but I'm interested. I'll take a look (although alchemy isn't my field -- I'd just heard about the black-white-red thing and thought, "wow").

      I already told you I wasn't rooting for any of the ships before HBP and I experienced no glee at how things fell out. But I think JKR has had her say on the subject. In the meanwhile, no seventeen-year-old boy ever said "I love you" to a girl he knew well, facetious or not, without some big feeling behind it; that goes double for someone normally as emotion-avoidant as Ron.

      And as for the H/G love -- we already know LV is wiped out by "love" of some kind. Could be lots of kinds. Don't know. But the only real plot justification for splitting H & G up at the end of HBP is to give them a moment to come back together that turns out to be important for some reason. So it's not too far-fetched...
      • Lots of (non-Harmonian) alchemy...
      • I think the Ron/love things goes both ways ... someone as emotionally retarded wouldn't appreciate the word for what it really means. JKR is so proud of her 'anvil-sized' hints, I think this was an 'anvil sized' bit of humour, look no further, grant Ron no more than his teaspoon-sized emotional range.

        Hmmm. What you say about the H/G breakup etc is certainly plausible, so I have to agree, yes, it could end that way. But Harry could just as easily never link up again with Ginny, find someone else, etc. But I appreciate your point, that it's not 'far fetched', fair enough. In fact, given the dissatisfaction many of us had with their 'romance' in HBP, perhaps a second attempt at H/G by JKR would prove to be much more impressive. Couldn't be worse :-)
    • :poke:

      Play nice, Brad.

      ;-)

      Some of us liked the romance subplot—such as it was—in HBP, and felt that the characterization followed from the earlier books.
      • Ouch! Whazzat?!

        Don't mind me, I've just been grumpy the last few days ... honestly, I thought there was a (good?) chance that H/Hr might eventuate in the 7th book, with all the evidence that was massing up. For some reason I thought that JKR had never quite articulated, in explicit, direct terms, that "Ronnie and Hermione will get together", etcetera, in that accursed, unprofessional "Interview o' Doom" she held right after HBP was released.

        I don't know why I had that impression - which has allowed my hopes to build up over the past year, in the belief that she might have a big twist in the wings - because I went back to re-read it earlier this week and she does come right out and say it, damn it/her.

        I'm suffering from a relapse of the grave disappointment I received when HBP came out, hence the grouchiness.

        Some of us liked the romance subplot—such as it was—in HBP, and felt that the characterization followed from the earlier books.

        'such as it was'.

        Can you tell me why canon!Ginny loves Harry? What she sees in him? A comment from a fellow H/Hr fan caused me to ask myself this question yesterday. One of the big reasons you've said that your canon H/G is believable is because, purely on technical grounds, due to the mechanics of how JKR has written the story from Harry's perspective, we'd seen bugger all of the real Ginny - super!Ginny - until she burst upon us all in HBP.

        Why does Ginny love Harry? There is absolutely no reason given in HBP, just a couple of 'hard, blazing looks'. So all I've got to go on is the crush she had on him from earlier, which is canon fact. Or otherwise the serendipitous match-up of adolescent hormonal lust and chest monsters, which leaves me completely unimpressed. Am I betraying a lack of same in my own childhood, the memory of which for other adult readers allows them to connect to canon's H/G?

        I think Ginny's still running on that crush, given that she said that she "never really gave up" on him - i.e. she's still running on the momentum of a little girl's fantasy - and their farcical break-up scene when Ginny let slip:

        I knew you wouldn't be happy unless you were hunting Voldemort. Maybe that's why I like you so much.

        See, you poked me awake and got me angry all over again, grmmmmph. :-(
        • Well, actually that was me, not Antosha, who said that about the story being written from Harry's perspective etc. But what I also said (this was back when you & I were hashing this out with Matthew a few months ago) was that JKR was deliberately hiding the ball. She wanted H & G to find one another after having other relationships first, so they couldn't appear to be one anothers' "one and only" at the beginning. It had to sneak up on us for the narrative to work.

          But as to your second question -- why does Ginny love Harry -- I don't know that I could answer that properly for any relationship. I couldn't tell you why I couldn't get my best friend's little sister out of my head, no matter how I tried, back when I was seventeen. And twenty years later, after being married (not to the friend's sister :)) for ten years, why did I wake up one morning and realize that there was simply no other woman for me? Why is the first thing that really gets Harry's attention Ginny's smell? These sorts of primitive things, the things that make us choose our mates, are not subject to sound judgment and persuasive explanation.

          But I agree that I felt a little blindsided when HBP came along -- I thought I'd been given one or two clear hints in OoP that there might be a relationship with Luna, or an outside chance with Tonks, even as I was being told that Cho was the Wrong One. But that's because I was blindsided, blindsided deliberately. And so was Harry.

          But the reason I never felt that H/Hr was a serious possbility was because R/Hr was telegraphed very clearly in GoF, and even hinted at earlier. The alchemical site to which you pointed me says that the symbol on the back cover of DH is the "marriage of opposites." But in the HP universe the tempermental "opposites" have never been Harry and Hermione -- they've always been Hermione and Ron.

          (...And indeed, thematic "opposites" in this case could very well mean Harry and Voldemort, which is truly scary. If JKR is following some of the classic coming of age narratives, Harry is going to have to come to terms with his own violent, hateful side, which means coming to terms with LV. Someone has recently pointed out that the end of DH might not be as simple as "H kills LV" or "LV kills H", because those endings do not take into account what each of them -- Harry and Tom -- would define as "victory.")
      • :sigh:

        Maybe I'm just exposing the lack of romance in my own life when I simply can't grok what was shown us in HBP. Or when I'm somewhat disgusted by it.

        And then when you add in my preference/bias for Hermione, it all adds up to my current level of grouchiness.

        :-(

        But the reason I never felt that H/Hr was a serious possbility was because R/Hr was telegraphed very clearly in GoF, and even hinted at earlier.

        I'm with you a million percent for Ron being (childishly) attracted to Hermione ... telegraphed with the 'anvil sized hints' that JKR was so smugly pleased about ... but there was very little to suggest that it went both ways. "You should have asked me first", possibly, after the ball, but that could have equally been read as simple frustration.

        Nothing until lobotomised!Hermione turned up in HBP. Again, something that simply has never popped up in my own personal experience - not that I knew much about teenage girls when I was a teen, let alone these days - the idea that a brainy girl could suddenly behave so idiotically, all her attention tunnelled into attracting a simple jock. And yet there are people out there who say it's a known/common stereotype. Even if it is, I still maintain that (a) it's a lousy role model for JKR's juvenile readership, and (b) it didn't make for entertaining reading whatsoever.

        :grumble:

        I'd better leave now before Antosha comes over and pokes me again. Thanks for responding :-)
      • I posted your comment about 'tempermental opposites' (but didn't disclose your LJ identity) under a relevant entry on the harryhermione community - URL is here.

        In case the entry is protected against infidel unbelievers you, I'll post the most interesting bit of text here, posted by lj user hhr_fan_always:

        The 'opposites' that a chemical wedding refer to is opposing elements, not 'opposites attract' like in romantic comedy or something.

        The 'opposites' being referred to are hot/dry and cool/moist, fire/air and earth/water, masculine and feminine -- the purpose of the 'marriage' or chemical wedding was to unionize all the opposing forces in nature.

        I'm going to steal from one of my own posts on the alchemy thread at ew.net so I don't have to rewrite this -- I apologize for my laziness!

        ----

        They're not meant to be astrological opposites -- they're meant to combine the four elements together. These are not just fire/air/water/earth, but also hot/dry/cool/moist.

        Here's a quote from Nicholas Flamel about this marriage of elements. In it, he's describing one of the emblems that ended up on his tomb -- it is a picture of Flamel with his wife Perenelle. I'll stick the picture at the bottom of this post.

        "I made then to be painted here two bodies, one of a Male, and another of a Female, to teach thee that in this second operation, thou hast truely, but yet not perfectly, two natures conjoined and married together, the Masculine and the Feminine, or rather the four Elements; and that the four natural enemies, the hot and cold, dry and moist, begin to approach amiably one towards another, and by means of the Mediators and Peace-makers, lay down by little and little, the ancient enmity of the old Chaos."


        Here's the picture:

        (URL is http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u220/vilepaper/flamel-perenelle.gif)

        -------

        Again, the R/Hr shipper argument is that Ron is sulphur and thus represents the fire/air, hot/dry, masculine portion of the union. However, there is no real evidence to back this up -- he doesn't match astrologically, elementally, in personality, or in literary function. If he were sulphur, it would be he that would be taking the Seven Steps of Alchemical Transformation so that he could be transmuted into gold. But this isn't Ron Weasley and the..., no matter how many OBHWF wish it to be so.


  • Just FYI, it's adorable how closely your daughter's predictions mirror your own :).

    The one thing I'm aching to find out about (not a prediction but a hope - though probably one that won't come to fruition) is what happened to Lily and James's parents.

    We know both sets of parents were around while their children were at Hogwarts (Petunia complains about Lily getting special attention from their parents b/c of her magic, and Sirius talks about spending a lot of time at the Potters'), but somehow by the time Harry was orphaned all his (presumably young) grandparents seemed to have snuffed it. I want some answers!
    • Somewhere or other JKR has said that James's parents died of natural causes. I don't remember anything about the Evanses, though. Basically she had nothing sinister in mind, but for the narrative to work Harry had to be an orphan with no one but the Dursleys.
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